Legislature(2023 - 2024)ANCH LIO DENALI Rm
07/14/2023 10:00 AM House SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
JULY 14, 2023
10:00 AM
FULL COMMITTEE MEETING
10:05:26 AM
1. CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER
Skip Cook welcomed everyone and called the meeting of the
Ethics Committee to order at 10:04 AM. He asked Jacqui
Yeagle to take roll.
Roll Call
Senator Gary Stevens (telephonic)
Senator Loki Tobin
Representative DeLena Johnson (telephonic)
Representative Sara Hannan (telephonic)
Deborah Fancher (telephonic)
Gerald McBeath (telephonic)
H. Conner Thomas (telephonic)
Dennis "Skip" Cook (telephonic)
Joyce M. Anderson
Quorum present.
Skip Cook asked if there was anyone else in attendance
telephonically. There was no response.
Skip Cook asked committee members and others who speak to
identify themselves for the benefit of others.
Skip Cook said he expected the committee meeting to last no
more than one hour.
10:08:00 AM
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Skip Cook entertained a motion to approve the agenda.
Motion made by Joyce Anderson. There were no objections.
10:08:10 AM
3. PUBLIC COMMENT
Skip Cook entertained public comment. There was no public
comment.
10:08:16 AM
4. HIRING PROCESS FOR ETHICS COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATOR
POSITION
Skip Cook offered his condolences to the family of Jerry
Anderson and he invited everyone to attend a reception in
his honor following the meeting.
Skip Cook said that Jerry Anderson's death was unexpected
though it was known that he was in considerable discomfort
with back pain. He had back surgery out of state in mid-
June and returned after a short period of recuperation.
Because Jerry Anderson had not fully recuperated, home
health care was arranged, but upon arrival on July 4, it
was found that Jerry had died.
Skip Cook thanked Jacqui Yeagle for her assistance to Jerry
Anderson and to the committee.
Skip Cook also thanked Joyce Anderson for her assistance in
the committee office and in arranging for the committee
meeting.
Skip Cook said that along with the agenda, committee
members had received a copy of a suggested hiring process
for a new administrator. The suggestions are based on past
hiring practices. The committee is fortunate to have Joyce
Anderson involved due to her experience in both being the
administrator and in having been involved in the hiring
process.
Skip Cook addressed a concern of Senator Gary Stevens that
the proposed hiring process does not include a legislator
on the hiring subcommittee. He said that traditionally
there has not been a legislator on that subcommittee for
two reasons. The committee is nonpartisan in its overall
makeup and if one legislator representing one political
party is on the subcommittee it may appear the subcommittee
is partisan. Another reason is a concern about the amount
of time legislators have available to serve on the
subcommittee.
Skip Cook invited Conner Thomas to speak to concerns he had
about the hiring process.
Conner Thomas said the job description overall was fine,
but he had comments to make about it. He said he did not
understand the difference between the general and
functional sections of the job description. He thinks the
informal advice function of the position should be listed
at the top of the job description because that is one of
the most important things the administrator would do.
Also, Conner Thomas does not understand why a bachelor's
degree, preferably in a business related discipline, is
preferred. He does not see the position as business
related. He also wondered if requiring Alaska residency
would limit the committee in its hiring decisions.
Conner Thomas also commented on where the job would be
advertised. He wondered why the committee would not use
COGEL, for example, in addition to local advertising
venues. He also expressed his opinion that the full
committee should be a bit more involved in or be kept more
informed during the hiring process. He said the last time
the committee hired an administrator the rest of the
committee was unaware of the proceedings until the very end
of the process.
Skip Cook agreed with Conner Thomas that the full committee
should be more involved in the hiring process. He asked
Joyce Anderson how many people applied last time there was
need to hire an administrator.
Joyce Anderson said there had been 29 applicants total, 14
were eliminated for not meeting the job or application
requirements.
Skip Cook expressed concern that there may be fewer
applicants this time but there would still be a lot of work
in reviewing and evaluating applications. He suggested that
the hiring subcommittee circulate the top three
applications to the full committee and to convene a meeting
to discuss the top candidates before the interview process,
then invite the full committee to participate in the
interview process. Skip Cook entertained comments to his
suggestion.
Jerry McBeath said that he concurred with the comments made
by Conner Thomas about the preference for a business
degree. He suggested the preference should be for a liberal
arts degree to better respond to the need for administrator
flexibility. Secondly, he expressed his thoughts that the
larger the subcommittee gets, the more time the process
will require.
Skip Cook referred to the Alaska resident requirement. He
noted that Joyce had been hired out of Minneapolis.
Certainly, he said, the administrator should intend to be
in Alaska to serve.
Deb Fancher asked if Alaska residency could be prioritized
because an Alaska resident brings history and there is a
lot of historical information needed to do the job. For
example, if a question comes up about the Alaska Permanent
Fund or the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act, knowledge
of Alaska history would be valuable. While recognizing that
recruitment might be more challenging at this time, she
would still recommend a preference for an Alaska resident
with roots and history here.
Skip Cook agreed with Deb Fancher and he wondered if a
requirement for Alaska residency was permitted.
Deb Fancher asked if the committee could start the process
with the requirement and see the response before opening
the position up to a larger pool.
Joyce Anderson reminded the committee that Cynthia Ireland
from Personnel was on the phone and available to answer
questions. She noted that she had a question as well about
the Alaska residency requirement and she asked Cynthia to
speak to the residency question. She also mentioned to Skip
Cook that she was an Alaska resident when she was hired,
though she had moved here from Minneapolis. She also
pointed out that Senator Löki Tobin had a comment to make.
Skip Cook recommended the committee removed the Alaska
residency requirement and to see what response is gotten.
Senator Gary Stevens agreed, saying it is not an important
issue to him. He thought the issues Conner Thomas brought
forward about more legal experience rather than business
and more committee involvement in the hiring process were
more crucial.
Skip Cook directed the committee to first finish the
conversation about the Alaska residency requirement. He
asked Cynthia Ireland to comment.
Cynthia Ireland said that traditionally state of Alaska job
recruitments are open to Alaska residents first, then
opened more broadly. However, that is not a requirement.
The administrator position is not one in which a lot of
people can just step into, and as recruitment is getting
more complicated, the committee can choose to make
residency a preference but not a requirement. She also
mentioned that Personnel is seeing a lot of spam job
listing responses.
Skip Cook asked if the spam responses were received when
there was an Alaska residency requirement.
Cynthia Ireland replied that they get spam responses on any
of the job postings. She added that they also get a lot of
response from out of state that do not meet the minimum
qualifications.
Skip Cook asked Cynthia if the job description says that
preference will be given to Alaska residents, would that
sort it out a bit?
Cynthia Ireland replied that if plenty of qualified Alaska
residents responded, they would have preference over
equally qualified applicants from other states.
Skip Cook said he could see both sides of the question. If
residency is an absolute requirement and didnt get much
response, then there might be a need to advertise again to
open it up to others. He stated his choice would be to
include an Alaska residency preference but not requirement.
Skip Cook said that Conner Thomas has suggested posting the
job description with COGEL, Council on [Governmental]
Ethics Laws.
Cynthia Ireland stated she would recommend that as well.
Skip Cook continued, saying [advertising with COGEL) would
tend to bring in applications from outside of Alaska but
they would likely be from people who have had some
government experience.
Skip Cook asked Deb Fancher her opinion of saying that
preference will be given to Alaska residents.
Deb Fancher agreed that [using] preference was good. She
added that she thought advertising with COGEL was
appropriate if knowledge of the Alaska legislative process
was prioritized over ethics experience.
Skip Cook said that Alaska residency could be considered
without stating that it is an absolute requirement.
Deb Fancher added that if there are two equally qualified
candidates, her preference would be the position go to a
person who has made Alaska their home.
Skip Cook entertained objections to including an Alaska
residency preference to the job description. There were no
objections.
Skip Cook invited Senator Löki Tobin to comment.
Senator Löki Tobin commented about the reference
requirement: what types of references are required, how
many are required, and how would applicants submit the
references. She also noted that a background check was not
listed under the minimum requirements. Robust background
checks are done by the State of Alaska prior to
appointments to boards and commissions.
Joyce Anderson said that a background check was conducted
in the last hiring process and agreed it should be included
in the minimum requirements.
Skip Cook wondered whether the required references would be
added to the minimum requirements.
Cynthia Ireland said there are numerous ways to approach
the reference question. One is to ask applicants to provide
a list of professional references or personal references
from the last few years or from your current employer in
order to avoid getting old references. In regard to
recruitment, applicants dont need to apply through
Workplace Alaska. They can submit a resume and references
instead.
Skip Cook suggested the hiring subcommittee work with
Cynthia to include both references and a background check
in the application requirements.
Skip Cook invited Senator Gary Stevens to share his
comment.
Senator Gary Stevens said Jerry Anderson was so responsive,
he had so much common sense, and he was just terrific to
work with. He said that he had been on and off the Ethics
Committee for 23 years, and though the public members have
been great, he thinks he has seen a misunderstanding of the
legislative process and a misunderstanding of what it means
to be an elected legislator so legislators should be
included in the hiring process, though he himself is not
interested in that role. He does not see it so much as a
partisanship issue, he thinks legislators are no more
partisan than the public members. Including a legislator in
the hiring committee would bring a perspective as an
elected public official. He recommended that be the case.
Skip Cook responded, asking Senator Gary Stevens if he
recommended a three-person hiring committee, with one
member being a legislator.
Senator Gary Stevens agreed that was his recommendation.
Skip Cook asked Representative Sara Hannan to share her
comments.
Representative Sara Hannan advised the committee to depend
on LAA Personnel for guidance in wordsmithing the job
description. She expressed her concern that in addition to
standard background checks, APOC and federal records be
checked to ensure that applicants have not contributed or
participated in campaigns. If that is what the committee
wants, it should be part of the hiring process and
Personnel should be relied on to guide the committee in how
to do that kind of check.
Additionally, Representative Sara Hannan recommended
advertising the position as widely as possible, including
using social media, and she addressed her concern that the
position only requires a bachelors degree and does not
require a background in law. She is curious whether Jerry
Anderson was considered an attorney in the legislative pay
schedule.
Skip Cook thanked Representative Sara Hannan.
Joyce Anderson pointed out that she did not have a law
degree; she has a master's in Public Administration. Her
background as director of elections and voter registration
for the City of Minneapolis, was an apolitical job. She had
experience interpreting statutes, testifying before the
legislature, and so on. Jerry Anderson was not hired
specifically because of his law degree, so she would not
want to only consider applicants with a law degree. There
are resources to consult if knowledge of the law is needed.
Skip Cook agreed it should not be a requirement. He
directed discussion back to the makeup of the hiring
subcommittee. He asked the legislators if any would be
interested in serving on the subcommittee. Senator Gary
Stevens suggested that legislators other than those on the
committee may also have an interest in serving.
Joyce Anderson said she was concerned about too much
partisanship if there is only one party represented on the
subcommittee and asked for the opinion of others.
Skip Cook said the subcommittee could be expanded to five
members three public members and two legislators but that
might be cumbersome.
Deb Fancher said appearance matters and she understands
legislators want a voice, and a subcommittee of five allows
that.
Jerry McBeath agreed with Deb Fancher. Jerry Anderson
stressed the importance of the appearance of impropriety on
the part of the committee. There is no way to get around
that individual committee members have their own political
preferences. A public member/legislator split balances the
subcommittee.
Skip Cook returned to the question of whether legislative
members were available to serve on the subcommittee. Skip
Cook commented that perhaps legislators might get involved
at a later stage in the process. If subcommittee expansion
is desired, legislators need to be available.
Representative DeLena Johnson said that she would be
willing to serve. She agrees with the need for two
[legislative] members and with Senator Gary Stevens that
the legislative members do not need to be committee
members. She also indicated she thinks legislators coming
into the process later is ok, though she has no strong
opinion about that.
Representative Sara Hannan said she has plans for a very
busy fall and would not anticipate being available. She
said that her concerns for the committee makeup would be
met by the whole committee having a discussion before final
interviews were complete. She indicated she would be happy
to see Representative DeLena Johnson on the committee.
Senator Löki Tobin also said that she has a busy fall
planned and does not feel confident she would be able to
serve timely and efficiently.
Joyce Anderson suggested the subcommittee could identify
the candidates that meet the minimum qualifications it
involves basically ruling out [candidates]. They could then
bring a list of qualified candidates to the legislative
members of the subcommittee.
Skip Cook agreed that it would be a good idea narrowing
down the list of candidates and then bringing legislators
into the process.
Senator Gary Stevens agreed that was a reasonable solution.
Skip Cook agreed it would work well. It also would allow
legislators to consider their availability while also
getting the process started. He wondered how many
candidates the subcommittee would identify before
legislators were involved.
Senator Gary Stevens said that should be left up to the
subcommittee.
Skip Cook asked if there were objections to starting with a
subcommittee of three public members soliciting, receiving,
and reviewing applications and then include two legislators
when interviews begin.
Skip Cook asked again if there was any objection.
Conner Thomas wondered if the full committee would be
involved when the top two or three candidates were
identified.
Representative DeLena Johnson advised including the two
legislators after the first cut, then bringing in the full
committee when the last few candidates are identified.
Skip Cook confirmed with Representative DeLena Johnson that
her suggestion was to bring in two legislators when the
list is narrowed down to qualified candidates, and then
circulate the last few to the full committee.
Representative DeLena Johnson said she thought that sounded
good.
Joyce Anderson added more about how the process was handled
the last time. There were 29 applicants and 15 were
qualified. The subcommittee selected 10 applicants for a
phone interview, then chose the top three to five
applicants for an in person interview. She suggested the
legislators get involved for phone interviews and then
refer the top three to five to the whole committee.
Skip Cook said he thought that was what had been suggested.
He asked if there were objections to that plan.
Joyce Anderson added that the hiring committee administered
a writing test to the top three to five candidates as well.
They emailed the candidates a question and directed them to
return a writing sample meeting certain criteria, including
an analysis and conclusion, within 30 minutes. Those were
evaluated also.
Skip Cook reiterated the plan: a three member committee
winnowing down the applicants to perhaps ten, then bring in
the two legislators for phone interviews, and selecting the
top three to five candidates for an in person interview, at
which time the full committee would be included.
Skip Cook asked if there were any objections.
Jerry McBeath wondered if the subcommittee would be
conducting phone interviews with the candidates or with
their references, and he expressed curiosity about the .
hierarchy of usefulness between phone interviews with the
candidates, phone interviews with their references, and the
writing samples.
Skip Cook responded that phone interviews would include
both the candidates and their references. He asked Joyce
Anderson for confirmation.
Joyce Anderson replied that was correct.
Skip Cook asked for other comments.
Cynthia Ireland asked if the subcommittee would conduct all
of the phone interviews including the reference checks.
Skip Cook replied yes, the subcommittee would conduct those
interviews after narrowing down the search from the whole
group of applicants to a smaller number of candidates they
want to consider further. From there, the subcommittee
would identify which candidates should go forward and at
that time bring in the legislative members of the
subcommittee for in person interviews.
Joyce Anderson commented that the writing test is only for
the top three to five candidates, not for all of the
candidates with whom the committee conducts phone
interviews. A writing test with all of the phone interview
candidates is possible but last time only the final
candidates were asked to do that.
Skip Cook said that the subcommittee could decide how they
want to conduct that part of the process. Personal
interviews would be before the full committee.
Skip Cook entertained further comments. There were no
further comments.
Skip Cook appointed Joyce Anderson, Deb Fancher, and Jerry
McBeath to the subcommittee. He himself, would act as ex
officio member. He asked if there were objections to the
subcommittee beginning with the three named members and
appoint two legislative members further in the process.
Senator Gary Stevens thanked Skip Cook for addressing all
of his concerns.
Skip Cook entertained other comments or questions.
Representative Sara Hannan asked the expected timeline for
the job announcement.
Skip Cook asked Joyce Anderson to respond.
Joyce Anderson responded the job announcement should be
ready the following week and based on her conversation with
Personnel, the ad should run for a minimum of the 10 day
but suggested it run for a month. She asked Cynthia Ireland
if she had a comment about that.
Cynthia Ireland said she recommends a month of advertising
for section heads, with an extension to 60 days if needed.
She agreed with Joyce Anderson that the job announcement
should be ready next week. She added that the subcommittee
could review the job announcement prior to publication and
that ideas for other places to advertise were welcome.
Skip Cook commented that 10 days is too short and 30 days
is preferable.
Deb Fancher asked if social media searches would be
conducted.
Cynthia replied that Personnel generally reviews social
media as part of their unofficial reference checks.
Skip Cook stated that thoroughness in screening candidates
was as important a part of the process as thoroughness in
reaching out.
Representative DeLena Johnson agreed a month of recruitment
makes sense and she wondered if during the process, as
major milestones passed, the subcommittee would update the
full committee.
Skip Cook agreed to Representative DeLena Johnson's request
and directed the subcommittee to keep updated the full
committee.
Joyce Anderson replied that the subcommittee would provide
a periodic update to the full committee.
Representative Sara Hannan stated campaign donations should
also be considered in choosing candidates given the
restrictions in the position, perhaps an APOC review of
candidates and campaign donations, including federal
donations. Representative Sara Hannan suggested advertising
with national ethics organizations as well as NCSL and CSG.
She also agreed that a month of advertising is the minimum
needed given it is summer in Alaska.
Skip Cook agreed with Representative Sara Hannan's remarks,
and he asked for motion to adjourn.
5. PLAN OF ACTION PENDING HIRE OF COMMITTEE ADMINISTRATOR
Joyce Anderson replied there was an additional item of
business to discuss, the plan of action pending the hire of
the new administrator. She and Skip Cook would provide
assistance to the Ethics Office in responding to questions
as needed. She asked Skip Cook if he had anything to add.
Skip Cook said the messaging from the Ethics Office would
be that because the office is between administrators,
complex questions will be forwarded and a response will be
given as soon as possible. The administrative assistant
will continue to work as usual and is authorized to work
additional hours as needed up to 40 hours.
5. PUBLIC SESSION
7. OTHER BUSINESS
Skip Cook asked if there was other business. There was no
response.
8. ADJOURN
Joyce Anderson moved to adjourn the meeting.
Skip Cook adjourned the meeting at 11:15 AM.
11:15:44 AM
ADJOURN:
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 20230714 Ethics Committee Meeting Packet.pdf |
JETH 7/14/2023 10:00:00 AM |